Q. How long
has the sound been going?
A. Since
1970.
Q. When
you started the sound, was it your intention for it to be the same way
it is now - a rasta dub sound?
A. Yes,
it was always a dub sound. The sound came out of the struggle in the 70’s
which black people were going through in this country - we got together
and decided that the sound should play a main part in black people’s rights
& we would work hard at it & promote some better mental purpose
within the black race.
Q. There
wasn’t much dub around in 1970 was there? It only started happening a few
years after that didn’t it?
A. Well
I had dubs at that time. I used to get a few from Jamaica, and what we
couldn’t get we made ourselves. We had a lot of musicians creating stuff
for us.
Q. The music
changed a lot in the early 70s - the sound of it with people like King
Tubbys & also it changed spiritually - why do you think that was?
A. The
spiritual concept was people remembering their past - this kept coming
into the music - as people remembered their history it was repeated on
record to make the rest of the nation aware what had happened.
Q. The music
got a lot heavier then too - was that a conscious idea?
A. Yes,
because originally the bass drum came from Africa, so that downbeat sound
became present in the music - at one time reggae was copied from English
records or American hits, just to reproduce them, and it didn’t have any
bongos in, but now all that’s changed.
Q. You’ve
been doing a lot of recording in the past few years. Does that mean you
can’t spend as much time with the sound as you used to?
A. Well
the whole concept of sound systems now has changed since I first came into
the business. It’s become a gimmick now with certain people, so I prefer
to have that orthodox discipline about sound system - then you won’t get
involved so much in the commercial side of things - it’s only certain people
that want to book this sound, knowing the type of music we play. I’m not
playing on a commercial basis.
Q. Is what
you’re doing strictly a message or is it entertainment as well?
A. Message
& entertainment. Music is the only language which everyone can understand,
so the message is being carried out but people also enjoy the music because
of the beat - even if they can’t understand the words they get into the
beat.
Q. What
do you see the future of Shaka sound being?
A. Well
right from the start my ambition was to play to the people of Africa, so
eventually we hope to put on a reggae show in Africa, with a band as well.
We’re hoping to change a few things and get people to open their minds.
Q. It’s
kind of strange that the music you play comes from Africa yet most people
in Africa haven’t heard much reggae.
A. No,
they’re waiting very patiently to hear it. Now and again promoters bring
records to these places and bring bands too, but sometimes things go wrong
because there’s so much intercontinental arrangements to make, so things
are a bit fifty-fifty on that side. But they’re definitely wanting to hear
reggae more fully.
Q. I’ve
heard it said that you don’t really go in for competitions, yet you’ve
always been rated as the number one for years now.
A. Yeah.
You know the concept of this sound is a different thing. I don’t know what
concept most sounds are built from, but we had that concept from the start
& we have to see it through, whatever it takes, so if it takes the
sound to play by itself to achieve that, then that’s what I’d rather do.
Q. Why do
you think most people follow you - aside from the spiritual thing, there
must be something about the way you sound - why do you think most people
respect you?
A. Well
we’ve always tried to fulfil what we’ve said our aim is - we’ve always
stated these things and people are aware of it, so that concept is spreading.
It goes further than the sound system, because the music is a stepping
stone to get the message across. We hope that not only black people but
also people of other countries can enjoy it and listen to what we’ve got
to say.
Q. In the
past few years there’s been an effort made by some people to push reggae
to an international audience, but do you think that would be impossible
to achieve because of the subject matter it covers?
A. Well
what I’d say to that is that when you have an olympic race and someone
wins the 400 metres, it doesn’t mean that person is the fastest runner
in the world. There could be someone else even faster who nobody knows
about. Some people have to run for their food, but those people don’t have
the contacts to reach these races. A lot of people today are making music
which doesn’t get promoted outside of sound systems, which are the main
reggae media, because before any radio stations played reggae, we were
promoting groups like the Abyssinians, Burning Spear, etc. Well now, people
who search within the business know of these names, but not everyone. These
are the artists who paved the way, but they get pushed in the background,
and the new people who are making stuff don’t get promoted properly. So
regardless of how far reggae is reaching, you’d have to have a radio station
to let people know what’s going on, not just two hours here and two hours
there.
Q. Reggae
is an underground music even in Jamaica, because you hardly have any reggae
played on the radio in Jamaica.
A. Well
yes, that’s worth talking about - certain types of music get pushed and
certain types get left behind, and that’s totally wrong. So that’s why
our sound plays the people who don’t get promotion.
A. Well, because I’m a musician there are certain things I’m looking for before it’s even played. Some people might dream mentally, but I get my dreams through my ears, so therefore I expect certain things and when I hear it I know it. That’s the kind of music we play - which reaches the heart - really it’s a heartbeat music.
Q. Could you describe what that feeling is? I’ve seen you at dances where you go into a trance, and people in the crowd too - it obviously goes beyond entertainment and into a different kind of vibe altogether.
A. Well... that’s the force of music. We give thanks to His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie to be able to do that, because in the beginning was the word, and we have to put the word across, so we give all the praises to God... music is feelings no matter where it’s played. Some people say that it isn’t proper music if it isn’t played in Jamaica, but then you’d have to say that no one can feel anything unless they’re in Jamaica. God has created certain things and these things appear to you at certain times when the music is played at the right time.... it’s a feeling created by God himself.
Q. In a session where you’re playing on your own, which could be for 8 or 9 hours, is there a conscious attempt to build up the vibes as the night progresses?
A. You can’t come out and plan to play a certain record, because God has inspired me to do what I’m doing, so I just have to go with the feeling at the time. I might play one record which then inspires me at that moment to play another to follow it, and so on.
Q. Returning to the subject of competition, If you were playing with another sound and you each wanted to prove yourselves, how would you go about it?
A. Well the whole sound system business has really got out of hand because of those things, even the whole reggae business. When I first started the sound and was playing with people like Sufferer, people just wanted to enjoy themselves - you’d get someone from the other sound coming up and offering to buy you a drink, but then it got to the stage where people started to change the way they played. Instead of playing to please their crowd, which I still do, they said they were coming to
take on the next sound in a clash, and it might have brought a big crowd - they might have brought 200 people and I might have brought 200 people, but at the end of the night there was too much talking on the microphone and not enough records played and the crowd went home disappointed. Well this is not our aim so we prefer to totally avoid that. I’m not looking to prove anything, all I want to do is get across to the people. Plus you could spend a lot of money to play in a competition and at the end of the night you might not even get a quarter of that money back, and that doesn’t make sense. People shaking your hand and saying you’re very good and you’ve got a load of cups, but you’ve got no money, and you’re the one that’s doing the work, so these aspects have to be looked at carefully.
Q. You’re also quite unusual in that you’re pretty much a one man show - operator & dj. Did you always intend to do this?
A. Not directly, but it just happened that it worked out that way throughout the years. There’ve been times when we did have a lot of djs, but because of our orthodox style, now there’s not many djs who would step forward and ask for the mic, knowing what our style is. It’s a different set up completely from most sounds.
Q. You appeared in a scene in the film “Babylon” which portrayed a sound clash which was getting quite fierce and almost led to a fight.
A. Well that’s the impression that the people who made the film had about sound systems, which they’d heard about from the competitions. They gave me a script at first and when I read it I refused to do what they wanted. I ended up directing the scene I appeared in myself, because all the build up leading up to it, with people from my sound confronting another sound, well that just doesn’t go on. We’ve got a very disciplined set of people, and I was totally against the way they portrayed the build up to the dance in that film.
Q. Talking about the technical side of your sound now, you’ve always been noted for the effects like syndrum & siren, etc. When did you first get the idea to use them?
A. Well I’ve always had some kind of sound effects, not to this level, but over the years it builds up where you want more and more. In fact I was thinking about getting a set of four syndrums, because new things are being built now. The more you can put into the music, the better it will be. In Africa you might have 200 people drumming all at the same time, and dancing. Certain sounds I use, I don’t know whether people have picked this up, but they’re really sounds of the jungle, like birds
and noises you would hear in the wilderness.
Q. These effects are examples of western technology. How do you see them fitting in to Reggae?
A. Well that’s what I’m saying - unless you can get 200 people to make these noises, you have to find electronic gadgets which can do it. If we were recording in Africa then maybe we could get 200 people to play drums, but until then we have to make do with other things. But there’s nothing which says that Rastas shouldn’t use technology. We need planes, ships and all these things.
Q. The world is in a pretty bad shape at the moment. There’s even a military dictatorship in Ethiopia. Do you think your music can have an effect on the way things are at all?
A. I would like to think so. Historically the conflicts have all started in the East and most of them have been caused by colonialism. Now people are saying that they don’t want to be colonised and are rebelling against their rulers. But we Rastas have no fear of these things. We’re just passing through this place where we’re living temporarily on our way home. And the knowledge which we’ve gained in whatever country we’ve been living, we’ll take it back to Africa with us and use it to build
up our own country there. I don’t think we’re asking too much to do that, and it’s not a problem for anyone if we do that. People are starving there and the only thing the world has done is to build nuclear weapons, so we have to help them ourselves. We will not stay here and suffer brutality, with no rights to express ourselves - if you’re a black person with a small business it gets shut down or something else happens, and people have talked about this for years but what has been done? We don’t want to fight in a country which doesn’t belong to us, and we Rastas are peaceful people, so we prefer to leave this place.